Heat's on British Gas

Yet another Times Online reader has ended up angry and frustrated after a battle with British Gas.

In this case, the problem was that the reader was offered the chance of having British Gas do boiler repairs for just £80 - only to have the special offer withdrawn after an appointment had been made. The reason given was that there were no engineers available to carry out the job

The aggrieved reader understandably wants to know why British Gas made the special offer in the first place if it was unsure whether it would have enough manpower to back it up. As the reader says, this cavalier attitude to loyal customers is likely to drive them into the hands of rival suppliers at a time when, by an exquisite irony, the energy company is mounting a major advertising campaign to retain and win back customers.

Times Money recently carried a piece highlighting the aggressive sales tactics of one British Gas employee, who insisted on a £100 deposit before giving details of the price of installing a replacement boiler. The article also highlighted the potentially misleading nature of the red Do Not Touch notice which British Gas engineers place on a boiler when they condemn it as unfit.

It has the effect of discouraging many people from seeking a second opinion from an independent source on whether the boiler is, in fact, unusable because, they reason, if no one is allowed to touch the boiler, no one can examine it properly and so, by defualt, they have to accept British Gas's' verdict and, very likely, British Gas's estimate for the work required.

British Gas argues that the letter which accompanies the red condemned label,  and which is handed to the householder, makes clear that an independent second opinion can be sought. But the wording of the key phrase is by no means as clear as British Gas implies.

What it actually says is: "If you would like someone else.to do the work  they must be competent and registered members of the Council for Registered Gas Installers (CORGI)."

This says nothing about obtaining a second opinion and in fact assumes that the "work" must be done.

We have received a high volume of correspondence already from disaffected customers: if you have an experience you wish to share, then add your comments to this weblog.

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Comments

[Julian]

The British Gas service engineers have nothing to gain when they diagnose that a boiler is to be classed as 'Immediatly Dangerous' and recomend that you have a new boiler installed. They are all corgi registered and trained in identifying dangerous situations and are kept up to date gas regulations.
Should one of their engineers condemn your boiler, then it is for good reason.
ADVICE: An old boiler poorly maintained and spilling Carbon Monoxide into your home can kill. Buy yourslef a carbon monoxide detecter and have it sericed at least once a year by a Corgi registered person

[Mimi Ferro]

I am very happy with the service I have recieved when I had a boiler installed for me by British Gas in Tooting, London. They were polite, kept my apartment clean, informative to my questions and i the price was in line with 2 other companies i had to give me a quote.

[iain]

Just had a sales adviser around tonight to qoute for a new boiler. I pointeed out to him that 'which' magazine rate the baxi duo tech combi 28he as the best value boiler available. He staed that it ws 'rubbish' and that he did'nt sell them anymore! I pointed out to him that it is available on British Gas'es website. The boiler he selected was a Bosch 532 32kw at £1600.00, i have a two bedroomed cottage with 6 radiators. I informed him that this seemed excessive! He stated that he mainly selles these boilers, even to fixed caravans in caravan parks! The total price was £3767.00 for a boiler replacement. Sorry! But BG are completely taking the p**s! Can they legally get away with this?

[mrs k collins]

I am getting worried after reading the posts.I had my annual service 3 weeks ago to be told my boiler was to be condemend due to the boiler case corroded and warped,this was due to poor fitting and water leaking onto it. The boiler is only 2 and a half years old. The engineer said i would not be covered for a new case and it would be cheaper to get a combi fitted. My quote was 3585 and cos we was desperate to get heating back on ave agreed and they are due to start work tomorrow i honestly think i ave been ripped off and had to take credit out with them to get it done.

[mrs vyas]

i have had a complaint ( the engineer who came to my house called my mother a STUPID WOMEN )ongoing for 1 year and can not get a satisfactory response. They ignore my letters and even their staff do not know who they are regulated by and the details of the ombudsman. Can anyone help? I have tried energy watch, they cant help

[M L Durnin]

This morning 12 May I received a letter from British Gas stating that"We have not received your payment of £228.00 towards your gas regular payment scheme" Since I have always paid ( for over 20 years) by direct debit I was bewildered and rang the relevant number. Having waited 17 minutes for a response I was told that no payments have been taken from my account since February, which is the case apparently for tens of thousands of other customers with payments taken between 1st and 7th of each month - which I suggest may be the vast majority. I am told a letter will be received in May AND I MAY IGNORE THE THREAT OF CANCELLING MY REGULAR PAYMENT. I was also told that my direct debit payment had in fact been increased by 20% in February without my knowledge - another apology. In a sense I am glad of the letter because it simply makes matters worse the longer this goes on but if the problem is of such enormity , and it is, why have British Gas not taken out a full page advert to alert consumers to this problem -too busy telling us how wopnderful they are and how their prices are plummeting. This needs wider publicity. I only receive bank statement quarterly and had not the slightest idea that this was happening.

Martin Durnin

[A Stand]

im just off the phone about my homecare agreement. i opened a letter from BS today to discover they are charging me for plumbing and electrical cover. the man i spoke with told me the plumbing dates back to 2001 and the electrical cover to 2004.
the trouble is that they say it was up to me to check my annual contracts and tell them if it wasnt right. i think i got a free month cover for both these producats and it looks like they have been chanrging me ever since.
i know its stupid not to check my agreement/contract but i think its unethical to charge me with no verbal or signed contract. i asked for the evidence of any discussions or letters etc and they say they cant give that to me as they dont have the information and put the blame back to me for not checking. these people miss the point. why would i check when i assume the charges are correct and BS is ethical. im going to write to offgem and will leet you know how i get on

[Brian Marks]

My heating broke down 1 January at night and they attended my house the next day. Guess some folks have a good experience and a few have a bad one.

[Lara]

I had a new boiler and central heating system fitted in September - by British Gas - the whole lot costing me £5,500. Two months down the line the heating has packed in. I've had to take an afternoon off work waiting for an engineer who only bothered turning up after I had screamed for 10 minutes down the phone at BG Homecare Customer "service". He said he wasn't sure which part he was going to replace so he'd order both and come back the next day ... which needless to say he did not. When I spoke to Customer Service this time they said I could have an appointment the next day but would have to wait in between 12 and 6pm ... in other words I would have to take a 3rd afternoon off work. I argued for 20 minutes, explaining that the thermostat was showing 12 degrees and how completely unreasonable she was being but she simply did not care. Now have to spend my weekend freezing in my house in the vague hope that an engineer will grace me with his presence. I truly wish I had gone with a smaller company ... I thought British Gas would be reliable - I was wrong!

[Verena]

Why has British Gas central heating annual contract servicing gone up by 20% this year? (Got renewal for 2006/07 last week,now it's called Homecare). I asked and was told it was a Business Decision! rather than limit the call-outs allowed they're increasing the cost. (Well I didn't have any call-outs last year, but I still get the increased cost.) Last year it was a 6.25% rise. Does anyone know how/where I can find another company who can provide this service at a reasonable price?

[Felicia]

We were thinking of taking up British Gas' Homecare plan before reading the small print and the extensive comments online which clearly spells out "Don't take it!" However, I would be very interested in finding if there's a nation-wide company that also offers such a service with a good track record? Thanks!

[DEREK HUNT]

BRITISH GAS DONT YOU LOVE THEM
im in dispute with them over a toilet repair came to fix a syphon covered under homecare 400 in process broke the toilet then told my wife that it was already cracked and should they fit a new one she obviously said yes thinking it was covered under their liability insurance but no presented us with a bill for £202.99 ive been threatened with court action by dyno rod the company they sent to repair it if i dont pay any help please ive only got about 6 weeks before i get taken to court?

[Marilyn Mathew]

Intensely frustrated. On two occasions I have taken days off work to wait in for an BG Homecare engineer to sort out an electrical problem. First time: no show, no call & 2 weeks later a rude letter telling me they had called & I wasn't in. No way - I'd been in the room by the front door all morning. Re-booked for 1 months time. Second time: no show, I rang them. Oh sorry, the engineer had some emergencies to deal with. Person on the end of the phone polite but 'sorry' isn't good enough. Communication needs radical improvement!

[Susanna]

My boiler is less than 5 years old - new boiler new build house. I took out a British gas home care plan several months ago. They came round and checked the boiler/heating was OK before the contract started. Last week the boiler seemed noisier so I called them in. Now they are telling me the boiler is totally limescaled up and my service contract doesn't cover any repair - they never told me limescale damage was excluded from the contract. They are telling me it's not possible to get replacement parts for my boiler (Powermax say this is not true). They want £3,645 for a new combi boiler!! they are telling me a new boiler is the only option - can this really be true?

[Nina Woolvett]

I don't see how BG can quote "typical figure is £400 to £500" for a Powerflush... I've just had a price quoted of £635 for a 1 bedroom house with 6 small radiators in Oxford. Did the Times validate their claim?
Thanks, Nina

has anyone successfully taken British Gas Homecare to court for breach of contract, by them refusing to carry out repairs, claiming the fault was 'excluded' under the contract. I am considering this action against them, but need some ammo and possible contact info / reference info to take the matter through the proper channels. My story is similar to others here, I want my day with them.
cheers john

[Tony]

I have had a 3 star British Gas maintenance contract for many years in various houses. British Gas have called six times recently to resolve an intermittent fault on my Myson boiler, believed to be about 18 years old. The pilot light keeps going out on its own.
On the sixth visit, a lump of broken fibreboard baffle fell out when the front was removed and as this was 'no longer available' the boiler is now 'at risk'. This had not fallen out on earlier visits and the boiler had not been declared 'at risk' before the sixth visit. As British Gas have been the only ones inside the boiler, and the damage seems to be physical rather than just wear and tear, it appears it could only have been caused by one of their own engineers on an earlier visit.
I now have a boiler which still has the original fault but which British Gas refuse to work on for the forseeable future. I am claiming breach of contract as they appear to have caused the damage which prevents them from working on the boiler.
The British Gas price for a replacement boiler was about double the estimates I have obtained from local tradesmen, and looking at the price of the boiler on the internet, it includes over £2000 labour for a boiler swap!
I am holding out for compensation as my boiler is now un-maintainable because of British Gas but I am seriously considering going over to an eco-friendly wood burning system instead.

[kwesi taylor]

I initially logged a call to B.Gas last Sept, after hearing strange noises coming from my boiler. The engineer advised that is was air in the system & I should bleed the radiators to resolve the issue. This was done and appeared to resolve the issue, however over the cause of the next few months the issue kept re-occuring. I finally had enough & decided to call them out last week, engineer arrived on Monday, checked teh boiler over and diagnosed the fault as either a problem with the fan or the flue, Tuesday the fan was replaced but the fault was not resolved, Wednesday he decides the fault is with the flue and decides to take it apart at which I was informed that the flue was never installed correctly and will need changing however the part is no longer avaialble therefore a new one will need to be installed, plus the boiler was now no longer safe to use and should remain swithced off. Thursday engineer arrives with a quote for £830 and advises me that as he "believes" this was an instalation problem I am not covered, and maybe I should consider upgrading the boiler. Friday salesman arrives and after an hour leaves my wife with a quote for £3000. I'm now in a situation that I have no heating or hot water, I've had to beg / borrow electric heaters from friends to ensure that I can keep the house warm enough for my wife and 2 young children, British Gas are not returning my calls, I've had to go to a local plumber to try and get my heating restored, and I can guarentee that once my flue has been refitted teh boiler will still be making strange noises.

I now feel that taking out 3* cover, was a total waste of time / money and unless problems issue are simple and straight forward the engineers are not "allowed" to resolve them under the terms of the contract. By B.Gas stating that "The cost of repairs needed because of design faults or faults which existed before you entered into the aggreement", this gives them a loophole to basically class any issue which they do not wish to cover into this category.

[Anthony Stocks]

I have always tried to stick to the companies who look after me. I don't change just for the sake of it, never have. All that would change if had my time again. I learned years ago to vote with my wallet. How do British Gas hold their heads up charging another 22% for a product that is at source FREE. Change to another supplier, let's make them think. Let their new slogan be PLEASE OH PLEASE COME BACK TO BRITISH GAS.

[Jacquie.]

British Gas had sent an engineer to my house to servise my gas heaters and fire. The engineer whilst attempting to remove the fire from the lounge wall began to loose his temper, he appeared to really struggle with the fire and eventually the fire came away from the wall... with most of the plaster!!

He went to service the gas heaters...both were infrequently used. As a consequence one gas heater failed to operate correctly. My lounge fire dropped of the wall whilst on. Luckily I had woke and heard the fire fall from the wall. The Transco engineeer who came to turn off the gas after the incident told me that all the British Gas engineer had to do was undo two bolts and then the fire would lift off from the wall like a picture from a picture hook!!

British gas showed no concern or took no responsibility for the damage caused or for the prospect of nearly causing a house fire!

[John Wood]

My British Gas bill for the last quarter was not far short of the bills for the whole of the previous four quarters, with nowhere near the same useage. Can anyone point me to the same Money-Tree used by British Gas? I would like to plant one.

[Ray]

I have been with British gas for as long as I can remember. I know prices have gone up but their rush to increase their rates, considering the profit they have made this year, has made me decide to move. Goodbye British Gas I am gone

[Tarquin Purdie]

I have a company called Powerflush Ltd and have experience of British Gas engineers dealing with Powerflushing. A few years back I asked for a quote and was informed by an articulate heating engineer that my system did not need flushing just balancing. About a year later I Power Flushed it anyway. On this occasion there was little sludge, it was however a really awkward system to balance - judge the individual, some are good guys.

[J Percival]

If world energy prices go up it is not part of British Gas' responsibility to subsidise consumers. They have a duty to their shareholders, and those investing their pension in such companies would not thank the directors for subsiding the consumer. British Gas are in a market and operate as such. None of us like fuel prices going up, but I have not seen the Chancellor reduce fuel duty to help us run our cars!

[Rob Jones]

Hi. Just like to add my two penneth. I just had a British Gas engineer round to assess our boiler for Homecare. It was promptly condemned by him because of a case seal and a pilot light unit which he said he had the spare for & could fit the next day. Because the seal was not on his spares list, the boiler was cut off. I have two small children who are very cold at the moment. Thanks for all your posts, I'm going to follow your lead & get a second opinion. By the way, my wife was sold the idea of Homecare on the pretext of British Gas saving us money if she signed up! I'll keep you posted.

[Neil GRATTON]

Its the attitide of the staff who are always appologetic but this does not carry sway when one takes the day off specifically to have a 'yearly' service only for the engineer not to turn up and the staff (who are probably trained to) phone up say they are sorry and have to reschedule.
Then you are told that BG do not offer compensation.
My days off are precious to me and I don't like the idea of having to stay in because the time window for ETA is so large.
If this is the way BG want to retain and enlarge their customer base then they are either too big and can't handle their workload or take the attitude of we are offering a service like it or lump it.

[Mrs Janet Heddle]

I have had a British Gas HomeCare 400 contract covering central heating, plumbing, drains and electrics for some years and until recently have never called on their services.

Recently I experienced a leak from the main drain from my house spilling on to a path shared with my elderly neighbour. Concerned that the water might freeze and make the path dangerous I called British Gas (drains). The engineer arrived at 1.15 (specified time 8am to 1pm) but announced that it was not within his remit as the problem was outside. I remonstrated that the drain is connected to the house and furthermore if we waited for the problem to manifest itself inside the consquences would be infinitely more grievous.

What I think will be of interest to your readers is that the engineer informed me that the age of my house (1922) meant it had lead piping excluding it from British Gas contracts.

This exclusion clause probably affects any pre-war property and should be made clear by British Gas. Several of my neighbours considering taking out Homecare drains cover have now been detered from doing so.

[Roger]

I recently moved from British Gas to PowerGen and you would never believe the stories the British Gas staff told me in an attempt to make me think I was making a mistake!!!

This is for sure - the move went smoothly, I now save almost 15% and when I ring Powergen they pick up the phone immediately and don't have me hanging on, paying premium rates (or Lo-Call as British Gaslike to call it !!).

Powergen have freephone numbers for every department (one of the major factors in choosing them - other suppliers take note) and as it is costing them 15p per minute, they make darned sure they answer the phone promptly - how refreshing!!!.

[Anthony Guthrie]

I became a client of British Gas Homecare in June 2005.

Since being a client I have wasted eight days as a result of missed appointments.

The worst service was four missed appointments in a row, one of which was set up by the head of customer services. As a result, I received a full refund of my service fee and a letter explaining that action had been taken to prevent this reoccuring.

Unfortunately, in January 06, another appointment was made, only to be let down twice before an egineer met his appointment. Due to the apparant incompetence of the engineer, the wrong part was ordered, and when replacing the part he managed to damage the boiler to the point that it could not be used until additional parts were ordered. He advised that we would have to wait for three days before the boilier could be repaired.

Only after discussions with various senior employees at British Gas were we able to get the boiler repaired on the same day. Well done to all those employees responsible for making this possible - this is what customer service should be.

It appears that there are a number of dedicated employees whose role it is to fire fight due to major inefficiencies within British Gas and poor planning/systems.

Mr. Mark Clare whose still has not returned my call since the last incident, may take the time to review all systems and procedures within British Gas Homecare and implement the necessary changes to effect a suitable standard of customer service.

Customers are willing to pay a premium for a decent level of service. How long are customers expected to wait for British Gas Homecare to get their service up to an acceptable level?

[paul anderson]

I worked for British Gas as an engineer. The prices charged were expensive, the sales reps hike the prices up to earn more commision.

The average price at the moment in my area for a boiler change with British Gas is approx £3500. Any CORGI registered engineer can do the work for a lot less, the service will be better and any problems sorted out quicker. My advise, shop around and get a better deal.

[Sile McGrath]

I read with compassion the plight Western Europeans are facing with massive increases in their utility bills. Things are no better here in the United States. We also share another commonality; leaders who knew the world was coming to the end of cheap oil and did and said nothing.

Everyone should read: “The Long Emergency: Surviving the Converging Catastrophes of the Twenty-First Century“ by James Kunstler. Kunstler writes: “This is going to be a permanent energy crisis, and these energy problems will synergize with the disruptions of climate change, epidemic disease and population overshoot to produce higher orders of trouble. We will have to accommodate ourselves to fundamentally changed conditions. No combination of alternative fuels will allow us to run American life the way we have been used to running it, or even a substantial fraction of it.

"The wonders of steady technological progress achieved through the reign of cheap oil have lulled us into a kind of Jiminy Cricket syndrome, leading many Americans to believe that anything we wish for hard enough will come true. These days, even people who ought to know better are wishing ardently for a seamless transition from fossil fuels to their putative replacements.”

[r horton]

The Times report that a 25 per cent increase in fuel prices would increase the average bill of a British consumer from £750 to £1,000a year. This is a wonderful example of the state of mathmatics in the UK media.

[Rita & PIeter Grootendorst]

British Gas ought to be named Brutish Gas - it is a rip-off and always was. We were told years ago our perfectly serviceable boiler needed changing. It did not. When we moved the old boiler was in the kitchen, the gas engineer who moved it told us it would go on forever, and it did. Efficient it may not have been, but it did not let us down.

We have had an apology of sorts from British Gas for chasing us because they had set up our account wrong and did not bill us fully as a result. You would have thought it was our fault not theirs. In the end the threats got too much and we informed the watchdog, who made them apologise to us again. Too big, too bad, too greedy and with a licence to make money for bad practice and poor customer care.

[V.Andersson]

Have also had a service contract with British Gas for some years and can't believe how they can get away with what amounts to daylight robbery.

They happily stash away the monthly premium but when needed don't turn up, are surly and downright dishonest on the phone and finally the work they do is so cursory that the problem recurs two days later ( yet another day of unpaid leave waiting for them to not show up.)

Why do we put up with it ? Because we've been brainwashed into believing it's a British flagship and therefore must be reliable. How to get out of it? Does anyone know of a reliable register of good, local Corgi engineers who provide the real service we were hoping to get from British Gas?

[Natalie]

I totally identify with all the comments here. I have a service contract and have recently been having the problem of engineers not showing up, four times out of six. And I have been subjected to the power flush scam (two independent experts have told me that it is certainly not needed for my problem).

The trouble is once one of British Gas’s dodgy engineers has wrongly recommended a power flush they won't continue to fix a boiler until you've had it carried out and paid out an extra £500. The company is cynically trading on it's old public service brand. By giving engineers special favours for encouraging power flushes the company (Centrica) is institutionalising cowboy behaviour.

What is energywatch doing about this? - if it hasn't got an appropriate department to deal with this aspect of the energy industry, it should set one up now!

Natalie

[Kiran jani]

My mother has a central heating system covered by a British Gas Homecare agreement, running consecutively from 1995 to 2005. The annual service of the boiler has been carried out by British Gas operators every year and due premiums collected by direct debit.

The engineer in June 2005 had one cursory look at the boiler housing and concluded that the boiler is not fully accessible. The very next week we had a cheque from British Gas as a refund of our policy, as they were cancelling the agreement. This was because the engineer established that the central heating system is not fully accessible.

How can a boiler be serviced for nearly 15 years, and suddenly become inaccessible?

We have complained to British Gas by phone and a letter delivered by recorded delivery (16 Nov 2005). There has not been any reply to date. British Gas did send out a salesman who has quoted £4400 for a new boiler!

Is there an ombudsman or some other authority who can help resolve our complaint?

[Gerry Lynch]

Customers should resist replacing their old gas heating boilers. The modern condensing boilers are much less reliable than older models. British Gas still fit Baxi/Potterton boilers which have a poor reliability record. We have one which is so unreliable it has to be replaced this year, it is only three years old.

[Patel]

Anyone got any idea what is going on with British Gas? I have a service contract with them and have had numerous issues with my system. BG forced me to upgrade last year at a significant cost, however the problems never really went away!

The call centre books in the appointments and more than 50 per cent of the time the engineers just no-show. Worse still I get conflicting stories of what is going on and never get a call to say that the engineer is not going to be able to turn-up.

To date when the engineer has eventually turned up the problem never goes away for more than a couple of weeks. On one occasion the problem came back the very next day. Given that the system is less than four years old and that BG upgraded the system last year I am lost for what is going on.

[J]

Could somebody please tell me, with backing information, how much gas prices have risen in year from Feb 2005. I live in sheltered housing with an inclusivr charge for heating. We are being told by our housing association, that gas prices have risen in that time period, by 55%, which I find difficult to believe. Perhaps they should monitor suppliers and change them accordingly. I would welcome any information, web-links etc that would help residents fight this lead up to a 55% increase in heating charges.

Many Thanks
J

[Roger Brereton]

My mother paid for a BG gas service contract for many years and a couple of years ago a service engineer condemed the boiler because it was too old to service. They quoted over £3000 to replace the gas fired back boiler.
I arranged for an independent inspection and the boiler was found to be perfectly sound. After having it serviced by the company that carried out the independent inspection the boiler was returned to service and it only cost £60.
Roger

[V. Queen]

The tactics of British Gas are unchanged. I recently had a heater cut off as dangerous due to a "leaking flue". The flue replacement was quoted at £800.

This figure would reduce if a complete heater unit was installed.

A second opinion by a Corgi engineer and subsequently British Gas engineers proved there was no basis for the dramatic shutdown of the system. A compromise was arranged if I had a small flexible flue section fitted which will be completed for less than £100.

Just how many householders have been duped is an interesting question.

[Graeme]

Three attempts to set up our direct debit upon moving in - at 20 minutes on the phone each time.

Then a red bill and reminder!!!

Not only is the service worse than poor - the prices are, too. Needless to say, we are no longer on their customer list!

[Richard Bates]

I am afraid I would not trust British Gas farther than I could fling a piano and my brother, who is a professional plumber, agrees.

I have always found that the best service is usually provided by small independent but well established local firms. They usually cannot afford to do a bum job because their continuing business means they cannot risk having a bad reputation with the local populace.

Also, they are usually cheaper because they don't have the huge overheads which large firms have.

[Janet Conroy]

I paid monthly for British Gas central heating breakdown service for more than ten years, but stopped when we got to the point where the engineers (none of whom were actual BG employees) were coming to service the boiler at 15 month intervals, rather than the 12 months on the contract.

In addition, about four years ago, an engineer "condemned" our ten-year-old boiler and then relented and said we should buy a carbon monoxide meter (which we did).

Subsequent discussions with various (Non-BG) Corgi-registered gas service people have revealed the pressure put on BG workers (or rather sub-contractors) to convince customers that they need a new boiler and, in our case, the consensus is that we need to have the flue modified but that the boiler itself is good for another 15 years. As the daughter of an ex-BG employee, I am pretty disgusted.